[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, guys, I want to give you one word that's changed how I handle caregiving, work, family, and everything.
That word is margin, not time.
Margin. You know how a book has white space around the text? That's margin.
Gives your eyes room to breathe.
Same goes for your life. If your schedule is packed minute to minute, one tiny hiccup, a phone call, a flat tire, a meltdown, it can wreck your whole day.
But if you got some margin, you got options.
You can breathe, you can adjust, you can be kind to your loved ones and yourself.
So this week, try a little space between your commitments.
That's not laziness. That's wisdom.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, hey, Barry.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: Hey. How's it going?
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Everything's going great. Got a lot to talk about today.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah, we do. Man, we got a pretty packed agenda today, don't we?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: The difference between Boca and mocha, and it ain't coffee.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: All right, so tell me, Boca, tell me what you talking about. What's going on with Boca?
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I heard of this and then had did a little research on it, Barry, and I figured I'd come and share the differences between VOCA and moca.
Actually, they are cognitive tests. They're cognitive assessments that you can take.
Yes. So the BOCA one is the Boston Cognitive Assessment. It was created in Boston.
Its purpose is to give you an opportunity to create a baseline so you can tell if you're having memory issues or if your loved one is. So you take this test, it's range from 0 to 30, and the higher your number, the more cognitively adapt you are. So the lower the numbers, apparently you can have decreases in your cognitive ability.
So Boca Science for Boston Cognitive Assessment, it was created some time ago, and you can do it self paced. You can go to a website and basically take this test, takes about 15 minutes to do and it will give you back a score. And you can use that as a way of measuring whether your loved one or yourself is having cognitive decline. So what you want to do with it is it has an ability for you to take the test, download results, and then you can share it with a doctor or someone and then have a discussion with it. Now, MOCA is the Montreal Cognitive Test. It is not self assessed. You have to have a professional that does that and, and you download that and that's shared with a neurologist who then gives you a better. So I think the Montreal one came out first and, and the Boston one is a. Is an attempt to do so that you can do it on your own. So there are lots of great websites on it that talk about what that is. It's particularly interesting for people who have dementia and Alzheimer's and things like that so you can measure your decline. It's very useful if you have a baseline like this to see whether you're doing something that is improving, helping, or maybe hurting your loved one. And so having this kind of test available to you is a good way to set up prevention and make sure that you're doing the right things. Particularly with the mix of drugs that are out there right now for Alzheimer's, knowing not just what drug, but what dosage of the drug is helping you can be useful. And so again, automatic disclaimer. We are not medical professionals of any type. You know, you have to go check with your doctor and talk to people who have a lot more knowledge of both things. And you can always go and talk to your Alzheimer's user group help and they certainly have information on this. But it's a really cool thing to know. You can go on a website and just do the BOCA test on your own.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: So to reiterate, if you're, if you're, if you're wondering if one of your loved ones is having trouble, mental trouble or cognitive ability trouble, then both BOCA and MOCA are two different kinds of tests that'll kind of help you get an evaluation there. And the BOCA one is more, I guess, user friendly. Anybody can do it at any time.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: It's self administered. So you can, you can take it yourself. You can take it yourself and you can give it to someone else.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Okay, I see.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: And the local one, Montreal, you have to have a professional do that.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: I gotcha. I gotcha. Well, I think that could be useful to a lot of folks to, to kind of want to either get a best baseline for themselves or their loved ones or to kind of confirm what they might be suspecting about, about someone, that they're having some mental decline.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: There is an official website we're going to drop into the show notes. BOCA official site.
There's one for the MOCA one too.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: And yeah, you can go through that and it'll give you some useful information. I thought it was really important for people to know. I wasn't aware of it until very recently.
And it's one of those tools that you can use to help your doctor diagnose it. Alzheimer's is traditionally very difficult to diagnose because there's no real test for it. It's almost a diagnosis by omission. So you try all these other things and if it's not that. Then it must be Alzheimer's. So. So talk to your doctor about it. But. But doing these kinds of tests is really useful.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's good to go.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: That's not just coffee, but real test.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Real test. Not just the city in Florida, but a real test. Yeah. Yeah.
So.
Wow, that's. That's really interesting. Well, I've got a little something I want to talk about. I.
I don't know if you guys have heard, but in the last. Gosh, I think it's.
You know, in the last few years, we've heard a lot about real ID and a need for that to be able to board an airplane. I know we've had multiple deadlines, and it's kind of been put off, and every couple of years a deadline will come up and there'll be. Okay, now we're going to postpone the need to get a real id. Well, I believe that. I think putting that off is over now.
I think it's come and gone. In fact, I think it was in early May.
So the, The. The. The whole thing is, is this is kind of a.
I don't know, I guess you'd call it a sneaky little bureaucratic pain point that can catch a caregiver off guard. You know, helping. Helping your elderly parent or loved one to get a real id, it doesn't have to be that hard, but it's not trivial.
So like I said, as of now, the deadline was actually May 7, 2025. And I know that probably snuck up on a lot of people.
So if your loved one rarely flies or hadn't updated their license in years, they may have snuck up on you. So here's the deal.
Getting a real id, it's not rocket science, but it does require some specific documentation. Usually you need a proof of identity, like a birth certificate or a passport. You need a proof of your Social Security number or. I'm sorry, their Social Security number, like a Social Security card or a tax form.
Two proofs of address. Things like recent utility bills, bank statements, that sort of stuff. You know, where. Where it would be sent to your address, and you'd have to do something with it. It kind of gives them a way to. To verify that that's. That's really where you lived. It sounds simple, but not always for seniors, not always.
Birth certificates, they might have been lost. Especially if this person's 90 years old. They may not be able to put their hands on a birth certificate right now. Their names may have changed due to marriage or divorce. Right now, their address might Be a nursing home or your place, which doesn't match up where they've lived for so long in the paperwork that just might not all line up. So this is where you come in, the caregiver, the paperwork wrangler, the documentation detective here. So first, call ahead to your DMV or check the state website, because some states allow alternatives if certain documents are missing. And if you're going to go to the dmv, go together, Bring snacks and patience. All right? That one's key. So bottom line, if your loved one might fly anytime soon for a funeral, a family reunion or medical appointment, don't wait. Go ahead and start that process now.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Hey, and if you're navigating this and you hit a snag, send us a
[email protected] and Barry and I love to get into the weeds on this and try to figure out things for you, so it would be helpful in that way.
But yeah, you're right, Barry. When you need this, it's often difficult to get because then you're trying to figure it out and you're under the pressing deadline of having to travel. So think about it now, especially if you're at all thinking about changing addresses or moving your loved one from a different location, consider this one of the check things you do before you move them so that you can get that ID and make that available for you. So it won't be as difficult if they need to travel for some reason.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: So, you know, we mentioned in the DMV just brought up something in my mind. In the last week or so, I've seen a huge uptick in these DMV scams.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Have you seen this, Barry? It has gotten really strange, hasn't it? So I brought this up to, to, to you last week as we were discussing what we were going to bring up here, that I'd seen a rash of these emails and we went through scams, I guess six months ago now, believe it or not.
And what I've noticed is that they've gotten more intense. So I see a lot of messages like this. But dmv, the one you're talking about, there was actually a notice put out in our state that says, hey, we are not sending you text messages that say that you need to pay us or we need information from you. If you look at the links that they're that are on these text messages, they are in no way official.
They have something gov in them, but they're at the middle of a statement, not at the end.
And that's One of the things you have to get used to looking at when you see these links is trying to decipher where they go and if they end up in a Facebook account or a Gmail account. Unless you're talking to us asking for tips, we're not going to ask you for information, but we'll tell you, don't click on these links that are doing that. And not only that, DMV's the latest one that's been hit by this. But lately I've seen a lot of subscriptions where bogus emails are sent to you saying your Netflix subscription has died or your icloud subscription has died or some other ability for for you to use something popular that's gotten popular in the last few weeks. Anything that comes out on the Netflix or Apple TV or anything else saying you need information.
Most of these people are not contacting you by email to tell you about a subscription. They're especially if you're on a Google or an imac or an iPhone. All that's handled within app. You don't get any notifications like that through your text messages or through emails.
And so I'm in a situation and you probably are too, Barry, where I have lots of emails and people send things to me and I see repeated messages about these kinds of things from different sources and I go, oh yeah, that's somebody mass mailing all the email addresses they know about to try to get somebody to fall for these things. And they're quite, they're quite so as a caregiver, you really have to be aware that your loved ones might be being are probably being bombarded on these email messages and you need to warn them about it, prevent them from seeing it, delete them if you can.
That kind of thing is really important. So I think we got a couple of pictures on some of these things and what they look like. Be familiar with them. Remember some of the things we talked about earlier with how you identify scams? Type that subject message and put it in the Internet and write scam by it. If you see something on the Internet that tells you about a scam, the artist on it, most likely this is true. So be be aware of that. Check your links and you know, never click on anything you're unsure of. And if you have a chance to call somebody directly, like a Netflix or your cable provider, like a Spectrum for us, call them directly and ask them before you offer any information or money. And then oh yeah, yeah, it's getting pretty bad.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: I tell you. It's funny this this is the third day in a row. So two days ago my dad called. He had the iCloud ID scam where his iCloud ID was going to be turned off if he didn't pay for something. Yeah, okay, so, but he's been, he's wise, wise to these things. So he calls me and just verifies us. Yep, delete and report junk. So that was a text message. My mother in law yesterday got a DMV scam, one where that, you know, was saying that she owed tolls because she had gone through the toll booth. You know, and weirdly enough, this is one of those things that she, she had, she thought about it and she said, well, you know, my, I gave, she gave her car to one of her granddaughters. And you know, just. But she hasn't driven in like two years. So she was really kind of worried that maybe there was something connected to her car and that where her granddaughter had gone through the toll booth. But it's like, nope, you don't, you don't even have anything connected to that at all. Not a problem. And today I got one from the, well, quote unquote from the US Postal Service. It really wasn't from the US Postal Service, obviously, telling me that my, one of my recent, recent shipments couldn't be delivered because they needed to reconfirm my address.
And you know, and I, you know, I see this and I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. And I look down and I see the, the, the address that they want me to click on like you were talking about. And it's something like Cutley IO or something. And, you know, being a tech person, I look at that, I'm like, yeah, that's got nothing to do with U.S. postal Service. And you know, it isn't even close to being legit. What it really comes down to, y' all, is they're trying to take advantage of you or your loved one. And that's. That, that's just really what they're trying to do.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Those things often put urgency on them by saying you have a time limit, you have to do it quickly. You know, even if it were true, nobody's saying you have to do this in 10 seconds or 20 seconds or 30 minutes. This, you know, some of them have timers on them. So those are telltale signs that you, you're, you're being affected by a scam and you just don't let it happen. I want to add one more last thing, man. So one person I'm caring for has actually told me that They've received a phone call at 4 o' clock in the morning where they had someone basically trying to press them with some of these scams. So it doesn't always have to show up in the technology you expect like an email message or a text message. It can be just a simple phone call and the same rules apply. No one's calling you at 4 o' clock in the morning to tell you that your tax return hasn't been turned in. Yeah, that's not going to happen.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: So sense of urgency, like you said?
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Yep.
For sure. They're trying to take advantage of you. And this kind of brings up something in my mind about an opposite case here. I have noticed with a couple of my relatives who I know are assisted, assisted living facilities, they're not trying to be, they're not. There's not a situation where they're trying to be taken advantage of. There's a situation where they won't take advantage of some of the amenities that go with that. Assisted living facility in particular is concierge services or even just the, the, just the van that's available to them to get to take rides places. So like I have two of these relatives. Neither one will take any initiative right now to take advantage of some of the things that are, that are there for them that they're actually paying for. A couple of things. One, being able to, you know, just, I don't know, get a R over to Walmart, you know, or, or to the CVS pharmacy or something like that. Both of these places have a shuttle to go. Several places that are close nearby, they use that for medical appointments or going to the pharmacy. Lots of little things like that. But neither one of them will, will do it. It's like, well, I don't want to bother them. You know, they got so much going on. Like, that's, that's interesting. And, and, and another is like being able to order from an alternative menu. If they look at your menu that's coming up for dinner and they say, oh, yeah, I really, I don't think I want that.
Well, but I'll just go ahead and deal with it instead.
There's like a set alternative menu that you can order from every day if you want to. Doesn't matter. It's not. Well, I don't want to bother them. They've already cooked this thing. And I'm like, really? Okay. So those are some interesting things that I've kind of looked into and seen happen. And I can't honestly figure out a way to change that behavior. You got any ideas?
[00:16:26] Speaker B: You know, I've seen this kind of behavior with some of the interactions I had with my father previously, and I'm a father in law currently.
And you know, one of the things we try to do is to make them aware and to take the pressure off of them. You know, sometimes some of the things we're dealing with, especially with cognitive decline, but even just getting older is getting this the sense that you don't want to be a burden to anybody. And how do you counteract that? Well, you tell them that they're not, and you tell them that you're. They're entitled to those services and you remind them that they're there. You encourage them to take advantage of it. So some of that is probably what you end up doing. I think depends on your person and whether or not how effective that can be. But I'll also say to you that you got to watch out for things that are part of a cognitive decline or part of the disease. And one of the things with dementia and everything else is the paranoia that there are. That you're being a burden, that you're being. That you're, that other people are taking advantage of you, that somehow there's a scam against you. So you have to be aware of that too. And you do that with constant and persistent support. And I tell people all the time, putting, putting my father in law in a home does not mean that we don't go and visit, that we don't treat him as independent as we can. And you give them the support they need to make those decisions. Because when you're in a new environment like this, especially when you're in a place where you can't trust your senses, it's understandable to be wary about new services and new things that are out there. So we do the same thing. We, we see that kind of issue. And you know what, What I really tell you is once you get them involved, once you just get them used to the idea of doing it, it may help them in their recovery completely. So you have to encourage that. And as a family member, that's what you're supposed to do, right? Encourage them to take advantage of the things that can do them some good and make sure and protect them from the things that are. Can do them some bad, like the scams we just mentioned before. So, you know, I feel your pain. Not every answer is going to fit everybody else, but sometimes it just takes a little bit of couragement.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: It's a little encouragement, but I guess that's true. And, you know, sometimes it's easy to forget that there's a lot of new things being thrown at them, a lot of new choices. Honestly, that, you know, that, that could be overwhelming. I think, you know, I think last episode we talked, or maybe in the last couple of sets we talked about how self control is a, is a finite resource. And I'm taking that as a mantra. But I forget that that actually happens with them too.
And, you know, choice is, you know, too many choices and too many changes and too many things coming at you. I'm sure that can kind of, kind of beat on their, the self control too. So it's just one of those things.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: I got to tell you. The other thing that may get into the issue, and I don't know if this is what you're dealing with, but it's certainly something that we saw with some of my loved ones is as you handle financial things for that loved one, they may not have a card, they may not have money. You know, going to the store and getting something means where do you put it when they buy it? So that kind of thing. So, you know, remember the ramifications of that.
Socializing and being a part of those kind of trips is really a good thing. And we got to find ways to encourage that in our loved ones.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: True, true. Good advice.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel your pain, though, because it's not, it's not easy. And nobody's saying that this is. This, these answers are easy.
The conversations you're having with them are brand new conversations where they're in brand new roles.
And you just have to be aware that that's as disrupting and as uncomfortable for you as it is for them.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: You know, it's funny, all of us have trouble with, with changing behavior, changing our own behaviors a lot of times.
And it's, it's difficult at best, you know, for everybody at this point. But it kind of reminds me, this is a little tech story I wanted to talk about, about something I built for my dad.
Not necessarily to change behavior, but kind of nudge him from time to time.
So my dad has an iPhone and he's used to people calling him on the iPhone, facetiming him occasionally. He's used to text messages, receiving and sending text messages, and that's about it. He doesn't get into multiple apps sending him notifications and things. You know, like I wondered one day about how to kind of set up some sort of reminder situation for him so that he would, he would, he would get reminders to.
I don't know things like, you know, check on certain bills or like his send in his estimated taxes or look for his deposits that would come in. He likes to still keep his checkbook register. And so he likes to know when all that happens. It's all on autopilot, but he still likes to write it down even after the fact. So he's got it. So I considered one day I was thinking, well, I could make an Apple reminders list and I could put alerts on them to tell him to, you know, pop up on his phone and do a thing. And I thought for a little bit about it and I'm like, well, you know, my, my concern is, and I'm not digging on his cognitive ability or anything, he's, he's perfectly cognitively fine. But there, the idea of an alert popping up and then it not going away and it's staying there and him not being able to remember maybe how to make that reminder alert, check it off, that it's completed. And then the thought of him calling me every day saying I've got this thing on my phone. How do I deal with this? Yeah, kind of threw me. So I thought, okay, I would like to be able to remind him of things automatically, but I don't want to go through that, that extended part about what if something goes wrong, no. So I did something that I thought was kind of cool. I thought you guys might be interested in this too.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: I'm all ears.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Created a little iOS shortcut. And this, this might be above some folks technical abilities, but I'm going to put some links to some things to kind of show you how to do this. But a couple of, couple of things here. I set up a new calendar on my phone and that's a fairly easy thing to do. You can have as many calendars as you want.
And in this calendar I went through and found recurring things for him. Like I knew when his deposits happen, I know when certain bills are due or certain bills are going to automatically be paid basically.
And I put these things on the calendar in repeating orders, I mean, repeating events, you know, that kind of thing. So they show up. But instead of sharing that calendar with him and making these things just pop up on his phone automatically, or not having anything to do with them, I wrote a tiny little shortcut in iOS that would go every day, runs every morning about 8 or 9 o' clock on my phone. And it looks at this calendar and it says, are there any things for dad I need to remind him about today? And it'll look at the event on the phone on that calendar and it'll go through and it'll build up a text message for him. Hey, check your. Check your deposit for X or hey, this bill is due today. And it will send it to him as a text message from me. And I added another little cute little thing to it is I have these little robot emojis that are on the end of the beginning and end of the text. So when he gets it he says, oh, this is automatic, the little robots doing this. This isn't Barry doing this. And that's a good idea Barry. I told him, hey, will you see the robots that happened automatically, that wasn't me doing it. But even though it comes from me and that has actually worked really well, he's used the messages. He's even told me that a few times. He really liked getting those reminders. So he'll remember to do some things like that. And it's been handy for me if I want remind him of something like I don't know, he's got a. In fact actually we did this for, for the kids, our kids and our grandkids birthdays. So I put them on that reminders calendar calendar. So a week ahead of time it'll tell him that and then he can go buy a birthday card and send it to him.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: That's really nice.
Now in my case my mom has trouble with those kinds of tasks so she would have trouble getting through it. But even setting that up for me to make sure that my conversations are in it so I can. Or even sending it to my caregiver so that she is aware of those kinds of things can really be helpful. So I can see that really being useful. And then you know the other thing that I wanted to throw up while I was listening to you, I was reminded about something that's happening to my mom right now. We have most of her things done with, you know, automatic draft so I don't really have to worry about bills. Occasionally there's a bill what's based on a card or something like that that we'll have to take care of.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: What?
[00:25:00] Speaker A: I didn't be on autopilot, isn't it?
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yes, it's wonderful.
But one of the things I didn't, I forgot about was donations. So if your loved one likes to give to different groups. So we. I actually had to sit down with my mom one day. She got a couple of very well meaning letters back from donations saying that you, yeah, you tried to give us some money but you didn't do it quite Right. Or you didn't put in the check or you didn't do this. And so I helped her do that. But so as a reminder for those who are walking into maybe helping a loved one for the first time, it's not only the bills, it's also the gifts. So ask your loved ones about what they're giving, engage them in that and that also informs you on the, you know, the causes they like. Perhaps one day, one day when you have the decisions to make about what to do about estates, you know, what they gave to.
So, so, you know, I think that's a good idea to keep in your, in your back pocket, especially if you're starting to do this with a person. New wise, make sure you ask about donation and gifts too. And I think the birthday stuff is important to. My mother's very big on that. She likes to write birthday cards to her family members and so making sure she had that is really important.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah, that was, that was very important. My dad too, he, he really wants to do that and it's good to be able to give him that in an automated way too, that I'm not, I don't have to remember it and send it to him on a regular basis.
I like to take care of future me a lot of times. I like to, I like to do a lot of things on autopilot, so that'll happen.
So yeah, I'll try to put some information in the show, note and resources about how you do some of that stuff and I might be able to even make the, the shortcut, a thing that somebody can download if you're, if you're an iOS person. One thing that, another thing I like about it is if it doesn't matter what your, what your loved one is using, if they might be using Android and you're using iOS, doesn't matter. It's just going to send it as a text message.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Yeah, Texas Universal.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: Yep, Universal. There's nothing, nothing dependent. So that's a good thing. So I think we have like one last thing we wanted to talk about today. It was about registering a loved one with memory or wandering issues with some of the governmental agencies. So tell us a little bit about that.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Yeah, so I have some loved ones now who are dealing with dementia, diminished capacity, dementia, Alzheimer's. And one of the things that was reminded to me, and this was by a very good friend of mine who mentioned to me that this is something that I may think of, is that you can register that loved one as a wandering or memory concern.
They usually call Them like Wandering Prevention or Safe Return or Project Lifesaver. Those kinds of names you get. And therefore people who have those kinds of issues, especially they're in with those with Alzheimer's, dementia or cognitive conditions.
You could register with your local sheriff's office and say, this is my father, my mother, my aunt, my uncle who may be in a situation like that. And you have to do a couple of steps. There's like five of them. I'll just quickly list them out. So you contact your sheriff's office directly. You do it on a non emergency number. This is not a 911 call. And you say, ask if they have a Wandering Safety program, a vulnerable persons registry or a Project Lifesaver affiliation.
And that can be usually at the county level. But if you live in the city limits, you may have to deal with city police in some way. Ask for the program coordinator. If that program exists, they'll have to speak to somebody who's responsible for it. You usually provide several things, so a recent photo, medical conditions and diagnosis, emergency contacts, usual routines, triggers, calming methods.
Like we mentioned before, that some people with cognitive disability have tricks to get their loved ones to snap back to reality. So if you have things like that, make sure you mention it. And then places they might go, like what churches, things like that.
And then consider giving that information to that registry. And if you have an issue, then it's a whole lot easier if they're registered already for that sheriff office to recognize that they might be getting a call from your family member who has an issue and deal with them in a completely different way.
So consider that.
Also consider things like GPS tracking options that you can do. I think Project Lifesaver has some ability to do that.
Update it as needed. So don't just do it once.
People change and things change over time. So just remember you need to do that maybe on a annual or maybe every two years.
And then think about registering with some of the national registries that are out there, like the Alzheimer's Association Safe Return Program, which is nationwide. We'll drop the Red Book website in there and make sure you consider things like medical ID bracelets that may have some contact information on it and condition information on it that could be helpful. Doing this ahead of time when you're not in an emergency, not looking for the loved one can be a lot less stressful and certainly a lot more successful if you do it ahead of time. So just something to keep in mind, especially for those of you who are dealing with, like I am with some loved ones who are who have been diagnosed, recently diagnosed.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: That is really good advice. And you know, it kind of rounds things out that we're. A lot of things in this episode, we, we've kind of talking about taking care of future me and you, you know.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's prevention, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Don't do, don't, don't wait till you're in an emergency to do some of these things. If you've got time. Well, make the time. If you don't have the time to, to take your time that you're going to need way before you need it. I think that's a, that's good advice for a lot of things, don't you think?
[00:30:33] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: So I know we're going to drop a lot of this in the show notes for people to look at. I know we don't expect you to hear us and figure it all out, but there's some really good information and steps in there that we're going to put in there. And of course, if you like what we're doing, increase our community, say you like us, give us a review, tell people about it so we can grow that community and have more conversations like this.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know what, I'm going to take it a step further. If we can get you to give us a five star review on Apple Store or Spotify or any of these things, we can, we will call, we will, we'll give you a shout out. We're going to, we're going to want to let you know that we saw it and that we really appreciate it. And you know, just like Bobby says, help us, help us grow the community and help us grow the, grow the show.
All right, well, I think that's a good, that's a good wrap up for today and we'll be back soon, so thanks again, you guys.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: See everybody.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: See ya.
